0.7.2 Preview r847-r867

Archived development update discussion from past versions
Archived development updates.
Nicholas
Posts: 13135

Post by Nicholas »

vicentefer31 wrote:When we start a new loop the extra time is 0 until we play the first note
hehe, I actually spent quite a bit of time making that not the case. I'm guessing you're talking about the case where the loop begins at the same time as a note? If it starts in some dead space where the song isn't stopped on a 'You Play' note, then the extra time counter wouldn't have to wait?

Now that I think about it, that little pane will only show up while in practice mode, so this makes a lot of sense. If you're sitting at the start of a loop, I'll make it so the time doesn't count up. (It's trivially easy.)
vicentefer31 wrote:A line to show/remember where finishes the loop section like the yellow I have add in the picture
There should already be a bar off in the margin area to the left showing when the loop ends.
vicentefer31 wrote:... and you know me, I'm sure something happen.
Oh, I know you alright. :lol:

I'll check it out again and actually try to play my way through something and see if it's acting suspicious.
Nicholas
Posts: 13135

Post by Nicholas »

vicentefer31 wrote:Something different in r852 and in r752 about the extratime?
I still can't reproduce the problem. Anecdotally, I actually ended up with more extra time in r752 than r852 both trial runs -- even trying to eliminate bias by trying them in reverse order the 2nd time around. Here's what I did:

Default Window Length After First in r752. Got something like +20s.
Default Window Length After First in r852. Got something like +16s.
Window Length After First = 30000 in r852. Got something like +2s. (I was playing much better.)
Window Length After First = 30000 in r752. Got something like +4s. (Still played pretty well.)

All tests were in practice mode. All were at 100%. All included the full song.

Is anyone else seeing this problem? Here is r752 win if anyone wants to reproduce the same test conditions. Is there a lot more "+time" being reported in practice mode in the newer versions than this older one?
Nicholas
Posts: 13135

Post by Nicholas »

PREVIEW r862
Download from the pink box above.

Changes in r862 since r858:
  • Use the 1-9 (and 0) keys to quickly jump between bookmarks. (1 is always the beginning of the song.)
  • Don't start counting extra time right at the beginning of a loop until the song starts moving again.
  • Start with "Loop 1" instead of loop 0 in the loop stats pop-up.
At the risk of saturating you guys in previews, here is another goody I was hoping to sneak into 0.7.2 along with that change Vicentefer suggested.

It feels like we're getting really close now. Let me know if you find any problems. Thanks!
vicentefer31
Posts: 899

Post by vicentefer31 »

Ok, now the new score is better don't start counting extra time right at the beginning of a loop until the song starts moving again.

And about the problems I have in extratime with these previews, I'm starting thinking that it's something from my computer , because I have in all the songs and It's very strange I'm the only who has it. Anyway I will try to play better the piano to reduce the extratime :lol:
Picasso: I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it.
maccer
Posts: 222

Post by maccer »

@vicentefer: :D :D :D

@Nicholas:
More work - I found a problem. If you use a Macbook Pro and don't happen to have a external two-button mouse connected to it, it is impossible to create loops since its trackpad only has one mouse button and loops require right-click dragging. Synthesia won't let me CTRL-drag (holding CTRL while clicking is the equivalent of right-click in MacOS), and even if you could do that it would require you to use two hands – one hand to hold the CTRL key and the other to drag the mouse –which can be awkward depending on how far the laptop is from the piano. I don't think I've ever seen a Mac app that requires right-click drag, so to me it seems to be a very "non-standard" way of doing things.

I would suggest having "left mouse button drag in the thin loop marker line above the progress bar" be an alternative way of creating loops. As I've said before, that's how loops are created in Logic.

Other nice features (as I've probably mentioned before) would be
- the possibility to change the start and end of the loop by having draggable handles in both ends of the yellow loop marker lines (both in the loop line above the progress bar and the loop marker line that's shown in the falling notes view). If you create a loop, especially a very long one, and realize that the start and/or end is a little bit off, it's easier to adjust them individually than having to re-create the whole loop.
- Click somewhere in the yellow loop marker to turn the loop on/off (show a kind of ghost loop marker when it's off) without needing to delete the loop if you want to turn it on/off.
- Drag somewhere in the yellow loop marker to move the loop.

You can see the logic cycle region (= loop) usage demonstrated in this video http://www.viddler.com/explore/bandmateloops/videos/4/ (not created by me - but vicentefer will probably think it is just like with the car :) )
Songs learned using Synthesia:
CT: Wind Scene, The Trial | FF7: Prelude | SMB: Overworld, Underwater | Tetris: Theme A | Zelda: Lost Woods | Other: Für Elise
TonE
Synthesia Donor
Posts: 1180

Post by TonE »

Nicholas wrote:Use the 1-9 (and 0) keys to quickly jump between bookmarks. (1 is always the beginning of the song.)
I would prefer it if the counting number of the bookmark would match the key to press, so the second bookmark should be a 2, not 3. If the beginning of the song would be that important you would simply put also there a bookmark, and the numbers would be still consistent. Just my two cents regarding its current implementation, it is a little irritating at the moment imo.
tommai78101
Posts: 766

Post by tommai78101 »

TonE wrote:
Nicholas wrote:Use the 1-9 (and 0) keys to quickly jump between bookmarks. (1 is always the beginning of the song.)
I would prefer it if the counting number of the bookmark would match the key to press, so the second bookmark should be a 2, not 3. If the beginning of the song would be that important you would simply put also there a bookmark, and the numbers would be still consistent. Just my two cents regarding its current implementation, it is a little irritating at the moment imo.
But it'll be even more awkward if 0 is the beginning of the song, 1 for the first, 2, for the second, and so on...

Should we count the tilde key?
Hardware Information: Dell Alienware 15 R4, Intel Core i7-8750H @ 2.20GHz / 2.21 GHz, 16GB RAM, Nvidia RTX 2070 / Nvidia GTX 1060 dual-GPU, Roland FP-10, MIDI-OX + LoopMIDI combo.
TonE
Synthesia Donor
Posts: 1180

Post by TonE »

Of course no 0, no tilde, 0 is just a normal bookmark, the tenth in sequence. The point is: Why should the beginning of a song be treated in a special way in terms of bookmark use? I could imagine an option which adds automatically a bookmark to the beginning and end of the song, but without having any bookmark there why should it jump there using bookmark hotkeys, like using 1?
Nicholas
Posts: 13135

Post by Nicholas »

maccer wrote:If you use a Macbook Pro...
Oh you Macbook Pro people... always causing trouble. ;)

Apparently there is some model of Macbook Pro out there that doesn't have arrow keys or something crazy like that. (Was it page up/down? Something bizarre...)

If Ctrl+click is the equivalent of right click, I'll do that. I like it. The loop area of the timeline is much too small to try to get people to interact with.

We'll see if I can get that up and running before the release, but it'll definitely make it in soon. Hopefully I'll get it in at a low enough level that Ctrl+click will always be a right click (on Mac) going forward, should I decide to involve a right mouse button in the future.
maccer wrote:... the possibility to change the start and end of the loop by having draggable handles
I was thinking about it. It did seem to get a little tricky because the bookmark graphic kind of looks like it might be a drag handle. I decided to take the easy route and do nothing for now. Especially with snapping, it doesn't seem too horrible to remake the whole loop each time.

I've been able to accomplish what I need to using the system that's in there now. Then again, I haven't made the very long type of loops you were talking about. I'll play with it some more and see how that feels.
maccer wrote:Click somewhere in the yellow loop marker to turn the loop on/off (show a kind of ghost loop marker when it's off) without needing to delete the loop if you want to turn it on/off.
that's kind of a neat idea. Toggling the loop isn't bad. Even more value would come from something like that if the loops were persisted. Right now they're not because I think of them as being super transient. And that's because there's no way to disable them! :lol:
maccer wrote:Drag somewhere in the yellow loop marker to move the loop.
That seems like it'd be a little less used and that interaction is even more tricky because dragging in the time-line already has a different meaning. Again, trying to define some tiny 4 or 5 pixel tall sliver of area above the timeline as the loop bar is something I'd like to try and avoid.
TonE wrote:... it is a little irritating at the moment imo.
If you imagine an implicit bookmark at the beginning of every song, everything is consistent. The "Previous Bookmark (comma)" shortcut already works that way.
TonE wrote:I could imagine an option which adds automatically a bookmark to the beginning and end of the song...
Someone asked me if there was a quick way to jump to the beginning of a song about a week ago (via email).

My answer (for 0.7.1) was "if you don't have any other bookmarks, you can use comma... otherwise, maybe tap comma really fast?"
Your answer (post 0.7.1) is "press the special 'create a bookmark key at the beginning of the song' -- but only if you haven't already or it'll toggle it off -- and then press 1."
My answer (post 0.7.1) is "press 1".

I like my post 0.7.1 answer best. ;)

You asked why the beginning is treated special and the answer is that it's not: there has been an implicit bookmark there since the beginning.

If it helps, you can think of it as two separate sets of shortcut keys:
1: jump to beginning of song
(2-9)+0: jump to the first nine bookmarks

Once you get used to it, I think the irritation will go away. 1 is adding something that wasn't there before.
TonE
Synthesia Donor
Posts: 1180

Post by TonE »

You asked why the beginning is treated special and the answer is that it's not: there has been an implicit bookmark there since the beginning.
I mean you are the developer, you make the decisions in the end. But I am just wondering, if there is an implicit bookmark in the beginning of the song, why this has to be invisible. Just make it visible and everything would be consistent, logical. Pressing 2 to jump to the first bookmark is not logical for my taste, but maybe I am thinking too strictly, I prefer usually best usability without any distractions.
Nicholas
Posts: 13135

Post by Nicholas »

It's invisible because bookmarks near the beginning and end of the time-line (where it turns into a half-circle) look bad. ;)

Still, tilde in this case might not be that bad of an idea. Then I get my sort-of-special-purpose "jump to beginning of song" key that probably feels inconsistent if you're not me, and all the numbers line up the way you are looking for them to line up.

I could live with that. That gives one extra slot, too, in case you were running close to the limit of 9.
TonE
Synthesia Donor
Posts: 1180

Post by TonE »

At least I know it that way from other sequencers, like Reaper. Also tilde on the left side of 1 would be true for US pc keyboards, but not e.g. German pc keyboards. Maybe you can wait for some more comments from other Synthesia lovers, not users? :)

For playing from the beginning also control-space might be another option?
vicentefer31
Posts: 899

Post by vicentefer31 »

Ideas:
looping.png
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Picasso: I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it.
maccer
Posts: 222

Post by maccer »

Vicentefer, you should see a yellow loop line in to the left of the falling notes.
Nicholas, I don't think the loop line area is too small if you use the full height between the timeline and the keys.
loops.jpg
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Songs learned using Synthesia:
CT: Wind Scene, The Trial | FF7: Prelude | SMB: Overworld, Underwater | Tetris: Theme A | Zelda: Lost Woods | Other: Für Elise
maccer
Posts: 222

Post by maccer »

Nicholas wrote:
maccer wrote:If you use a Macbook Pro...
Oh you Macbook Pro people... always causing trouble. ;)
That would be *all* mac-using people that still use the old one-button mouse that came with their computer or haven't turned on the secondary button in their Mighty Mouse / Magic Mouse :-)
Apparently there is some model of Macbook Pro out there that doesn't have arrow keys or something crazy like that. (Was it page up/down? Something bizarre...)
They have arrow keys, but in order to use page up/down or home/end you need to hold FN and use the arrow keys.
[...]
Ctrl+click will always be a right click (on Mac) going forward, should I decide to involve a right mouse button in the future.
[/quote]
Sounds good!
Songs learned using Synthesia:
CT: Wind Scene, The Trial | FF7: Prelude | SMB: Overworld, Underwater | Tetris: Theme A | Zelda: Lost Woods | Other: Für Elise
vicentefer31
Posts: 899

Post by vicentefer31 »

I don't have the yellow loop line in the margin, what am I doing wrong?
where.png
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Picasso: I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it.
TonE
Synthesia Donor
Posts: 1180

Post by TonE »

vicentefer31 wrote:I don't have the yellow loop line in the margin, what am I doing wrong?
Not using OpenGL mode. :) Indeed I was suspicious that might be the reason, just switched to DirectX mode for testing and the looping line in the margin was invisible there. I am sure Nicholas will change it quickly then.
vicentefer31
Posts: 899

Post by vicentefer31 »

Thanks TonE, in OpenGl I have the yellow loop line.

Edit: But another yellow line across the window should be better :lol:
Picasso: I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it.
TonE
Synthesia Donor
Posts: 1180

Post by TonE »

vicentefer31 wrote:Edit: But another yellow line across the window should be better
Maybe using even two different line colors, green for loopstart, red for loopend, in a similar fashion as traffic colors. Then playing Synthesia would be like driving cars on "note streets".
Nicholas
Posts: 13135

Post by Nicholas »

vicentefer31 wrote:in OpenGl I have the yellow loop line.
That's definitely a bug. And a disconcerting one. If I can't count on my cross-platform code to draw a simple rectangle... what *can* I count on it for? :?
vicentefer31 wrote:But another yellow line across the window should be better :lol:
I'm still going to try this out to see how it looks.
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