0.8.2 Preview r1442 - Dramatically Improved Notation

Archived development update discussion from past versions
Archived development updates.
Electrode
Posts: 187

Post by Electrode » 09-16-11 10:38 am

Nicholas,

All the scales check out perfectly.

Readability-wise, I have a couple of small issues. I think the double-sharp glyph needs to be, uh... sharper. :roll: I mean that I think some more white-space might need to be cut into the shape to make it look less like a blob and more like an "x", especially at typical monitor-viewing distances. My monitor is about 6 ft. away from me, and it's a little hard to make out the shape of the glyph, even though I already know what it is. Actually, thinking about it further, it could just be due to the size of the sheet music window, to be honest. On the same subject, I think the left flat in the double-flat sign is a bit horizontally squashed, possibly due to the same reason I just said (sheet music window size). I know the left flat is meant to be slightly thinner than the main flat, but it still looks a little too squashed to me... or maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me. I wouldn't be surprised! :D

To combat this issue-that-might-not-be-an-issue, perhaps the sheet window could be zoomable once full-screen sheet view is in? Are the glyphs SVGs?

The contrast is fine for me between the blue hues for the current bar/note/chord. I personally think that it's more of a monitor or graphics card setting issue (weird brightness/contrast/gamma settings) rather than the choice of colour used in the game. However, if some users still have a problem with it, I think that taking the "current note/chord" blue a shade or two darker wouldn't pose a problem.

Nicholas
Posts: 12023

Post by Nicholas » 09-16-11 12:02 pm

Electrode wrote:... perhaps the sheet window could be zoomable once full-screen sheet view is in?
It's zoomable now. Drag the separator between the falling notes and the sheet. :D

Otherwise, I drew the source graphics in SVG, but I press them down into a texture for use in Synthesia. Some day when high-density (retina) displays start popping up in computers (Windows 8 and OS 10.7 both have support for high-DPI monitors built in) I could ship the game with a double-res texture or something that it could choose from based on your screen size.

I'll mess around with the double-sharp. It is a little blobby. Though, the squished end of the double-flat is the same size/dimensions and all that of all the reference double-flats I was able to find out there. Like, identical.

vicentefer31
Posts: 899
Location: Madrid, Spain

Post by vicentefer31 » 09-16-11 4:45 pm

Nicholas wrote:
vicentefer31 wrote:I wonder why both tracks aren't display on separate staffs correctly.
At some other point in the song the left hand track goes more than 8 notes above middle-C.
I have removed some measures from the midi and you are right.
sheet music.png
sheet music.png (50.47 KiB) Viewed 10664 times
...and btw the sheet music looks perfect!!!!

Now, I dont have excuses to learn to read Sheet Music with Synthesia. :D :D :D
Picasso: I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it.

maccer
Posts: 222
Location: Sweden

Post by maccer » 09-17-11 7:54 am

Nicholas wrote:
  • Allow up to 3 or so more ledger lines before a track insisted on spanning both staffs.
Still, for those songs that are still split incorrectly (for example this one), where one really wants to keep the left and right hand on separate staffs for the whole song, couldn't we have a song-based setting in the metadata to override the auto-splitting?
Songs learned using Synthesia:
CT: Wind Scene, The Trial | FF7: Prelude | SMB: Overworld, Underwater | Tetris: Theme A | Zelda: Lost Woods | Other: Für Elise

Typhlosion
Posts: 82

Post by Typhlosion » 09-17-11 8:11 am

vicentefer31 wrote: ...and btw the sheet music looks perfect!!!!
No it doesn't.
Stems wrong direction (looks weird)
Some bars missing.
eighth notes need to be more connected to each other. There should be at least 4 8th notes connected...
Notes on same times but with different lengths have to be displayed correctly.

Then it would look good.

Nicholas
Posts: 12023

Post by Nicholas » 09-17-11 9:03 am

Typhlosion wrote:No it doesn't.
Jeez, tough critic. Claiming "dramatically improved" isn't the same as claiming "totally perfect". It'll get there. It just takes time. ;) Those are all issues I know about.
maccer wrote:... where one really wants to keep the left and right hand on separate staffs...
Without 8va/8vb or double-clef staffs (neither of which are planned for a long time), this is impossible. All it will do is let the user get themselves into trouble with dozens of ledger lines that are neither aesthetic or correct.

At the top of the 2nd page of the PDF in the topic you linked, it switches to double-Treble. That is how they solved the problem. Synthesia is a little ways off from being able to do that.

The solution I mentioned above where staff selection happens per page instead of for the whole song should solve that problem like 97% of the time. The only time you'll see notes on the wrong staff will be during the actual hand-over-hand parts or double-staff or whatever... at which point they're supposed to be on that other staff.

That song would go from having 14 lines (according to the PDF) appearing incorrect to only having 1 incorrect.

Electrode
Posts: 187

Post by Electrode » 09-17-11 9:51 am

OK, so the double-flat thing is totally my eyes playing tricks on me. I knew it. (This is why I use my ears more than my eyes! :D )

One random thing I came across today is: why are you not allowed to use simple track settings if you have no output device selected? Surely you should still be able to use simple settings, with just the top button "Watch and listen, follow along on your own" taken away or greyed-out or something?

Pianotehead
Posts: 319

Post by Pianotehead » 09-17-11 12:48 pm

I've tried the latest dev a few times and it looks great. Would have preferred to have the notes due for playing in a lighter color, or even uncolored, but opinions probably differ on this issue.

Off topic: My Java program only took about nine minutes to finish! Still it's under 20 lines. I tried it with input equal to one million and I was supposed to try it for 10 million. Guess I can go and have a dinner after I run it for 10 million!

User avatar
DC64
Posts: 830
Location: Earth, U.S.

Post by DC64 » 09-17-11 12:56 pm

I think its ready.
"And now for something completely different."

Pianotehead
Posts: 319

Post by Pianotehead » 09-17-11 1:50 pm

An hour passed, and it's still running!

vicentefer31
Posts: 899
Location: Madrid, Spain

Post by vicentefer31 » 09-17-11 4:23 pm

Typhlosion wrote:
vicentefer31 wrote: ...and btw the sheet music looks perfect!!!!
No it doesn't.
Sure, but it's good enough for someone like me who is starting to learn to read a sheet music.
I hope that it can be good enough for people like you or like Electrode soon.
Picasso: I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it.

kickininthefrontsea
Posts: 39
Location: Newcastle, Australia

Post by kickininthefrontsea » 09-20-11 6:47 am

Great progress Nicholas

I love the random circles with the library preview

In the attached zip i have two versions an octave apart, in one it's spread across two staves and displays as expected
the other i mumble along to is all displayed on the bass staff, fair enough, but the note following display is a little wonky
ie blue follows along where treble staff would be with no blue line on the bass
Attachments
ValerieUP.mscz.zip
Bass only
(1.14 KiB) Downloaded 174 times

Nicholas
Posts: 12023

Post by Nicholas » 09-20-11 11:37 am

kickininthefrontsea wrote:... but the note following display is a little wonky
Nice find. I don't have a bass-clef-only test in my testing suite. I'll fix that.

Electrode
Posts: 187

Post by Electrode » 09-21-11 11:09 am

Nicholas, I've noticed that if you set a loop, and then go out of a song and come back in (while still in Synthesia, of course), the loop is still there in the same place you set it. If you exit the program however, this loop information is lost. Is there a way to have Synthesia remember loops between sessions (i.e. if you exit the program and go back in, your loop is right where you left it)? It would be a useful thing to have. (...perhaps stored in the bookmarks XML file?)

Also, regarding the sheet music, I was randomly thinking: how come the right hand track isn't just forced to treble clef, and the left hand track forced to bass clef (with necessary ledger lines and stuff intact)? It would prevent situations like vicentefer's, as well as possibly allowing for mid-song clef changes in future according to (for example), if one part needs more than 3 ledger lines on either side, the clef automatically switches on the staff for that hand. Binding hands to staffs seems like a better way of doing things to me. The disadvantage to this would be ugliness in some places, I suppose - but then again, perhaps staff binding could be used when mid-song clef changes are ready to be implemented. Until then, keeping things the way they are would most likely be best for the majority of situations.

Another random thing I was thinking about was that perhaps, in future, we could have little detection routines that look at the patch name and if "bass" is in the patch name, the staff is automatically set to bass clef. This could be expanded so that guitars automatically display on treble clef (guitar music is always only written on treble clef), as do flutes, clarinets, the higher-range saxophones etc. etc.

User avatar
DC64
Posts: 830
Location: Earth, U.S.

Post by DC64 » 09-22-11 10:04 pm

The sheet music does look a bit funny when playing a certian instrument in a song.
Spoiler:
Sheet music bug1.jpg
Sheet music bug1.jpg (138.07 KiB) Viewed 10510 times
"And now for something completely different."

Nicholas
Posts: 12023

Post by Nicholas » 09-22-11 10:30 pm

Hmm, wonder what's making those beams cross-over like that. They're not supposed to be allowed to.

Typhlosion
Posts: 82

Post by Typhlosion » 09-23-11 12:26 am

Nicholas wrote:Hmm, wonder what's making those beams cross-over like that. They're not supposed to be allowed to.
I'm pretty sure it is because of the durations of the notes.
As you can see, Synthesia shows 1/8 notes, but in fact next notes start already at the half duration of the last ones.

User avatar
DC64
Posts: 830
Location: Earth, U.S.

Post by DC64 » 09-23-11 11:57 pm

Do you want the midi to test?
"And now for something completely different."

Nicholas
Posts: 12023

Post by Nicholas » 09-25-11 2:34 am

Yeah, it might not be bad to hang onto until I do the multi-line stuff in 0.8.3...

User avatar
DC64
Posts: 830
Location: Earth, U.S.

Post by DC64 » 09-25-11 9:37 am

Neutron Star Collision (Love is Forever).mid
(47.84 KiB) Downloaded 239 times
The part I showed is the Pad 3 (polysynth).
"And now for something completely different."

Locked