Stuck notes

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raise
Posts: 6

Post by raise »

Hi from Norway.
I have an old piano, Technics sx-pr250, that give me hanging notes in synthesia:All notes off.
I use a midi to usb cable,called Element, that works fine on Kawai K4,Casio Privia and M-Audio,but not in Technics.
This is from Midi-Ox:
TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT
00077985 1 2 B0 7B 00 1 --- CC:All Notes Off

Anybody have a solution to fix this ?
Nicholas
Posts: 12774

Post by Nicholas »

To make sure I understand correctly: did you mean that your Technics keyboard is sending an "All Notes Off" message anytime you release a key (instead of sending a more correct "Note Off" message)? Or did you mean something else?

Which version of Synthesia are you using? I haven't tested it in a long time, but back in Synthesia 8.5 (from March 2013) I made sure Synthesia could handle "All Notes Off" from each key release.
raise
Posts: 6

Post by raise »

Hi, thank you for answer.
I use Synthesia 10.7.5567.
Yes, its exactly what i meant.
Is there any adjustment you can do to handle "all notes off" ?
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jimhenry
Posts: 1865

Post by jimhenry »

I don't have a fix. But to clarify for Nicholas, Technics keyboards send "All Notes Off" whenever they transition from any key on to all keys off. (At least that is my pretty firm memory of the Technics quirk.) This should not create a hanging notes problem. It is actually a feature to prevent hanging notes when a "Note Off" message gets lost.

The reason I know about this is because of my virtual organ program. Technics organs, which have 3 keyboards, send the "All Notes Off" based on each keyboard. Releasing all notes on one keyboard causes my program to silence everything. Or it did until I added a feature to allow "All Notes Off" to be ignored.

Since raise seems to be familiar with MIDI-OX, they could use MIDI-OX to filter out the "All Notes Off" messages to see if that makes a difference.
Jim Henry
Author of the Miditzer, a free virtual theatre pipe organ
http://www.Miditzer.org/
raise
Posts: 6

Post by raise »

HI, i tried to filter out cc:123, and that works in Midi-ox,but then it looks like the sustain pedal is down.
And there is no "notes off". If i take a fast step on the keyboard, the notes off coming.
I dont know how to fix this.
Bavi_H
Posts: 19

Post by Bavi_H »

What is the MIDI output device you are using with Synthesia (or MIDI-OX)? Check if that device has a setting to ignore incoming Control Change messages. If you find that kind of setting, try changing it to obey incoming Control Change messages and see if that helps.

Are you having the problem during Synthesia game play or on other Synthesia screens? During some tests I made, it appears if Synthesia gets an All Notes Off message, it will insert appropriate Note Off messages for the notes that were on. But Synthesia only does this reliably during the game play mode. On other screens, I saw inconsistent results.


If you want to use MIDI-OX to convert messages then send them to Synthesia, be aware that you'll need to use a virtual MIDI cable (such as loopMIDI) to connect MIDI-OX to Synthesia:

virtual-cable-diagram.png
virtual-cable-diagram.png (2.42 KiB) Viewed 1441 times

MIDI-OX has limited message conversion ability. It can convert one kind of MIDI message to another kind of message. But it can't store variables like which pitches were previously sent.

However, MIDI-OX also has a scripting interface. I wrote the attached JavaScript file. When you open this script in Windows, the script runs in Windows Script Host. The script opens MIDI-OX, intercepts the MIDI messages coming in MIDI-OX's input port, and then sends desired messages to MIDI-OX's output port. The script keeps track of which pitches are on. When the script sees an All Notes Off message, it instead sends a note ending message (Note On with velocity zero) for each pitch that was currently sounding on the same channel.

This is a very clunky workaround because you need to have loopMIDI, the conversion script, MIDI-OX, and Synthesia all running at the same time. But maybe it will help you.
Attachments
midi-ox-change-all-notes-off-to-note-ends.zip
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jimhenry
Posts: 1865

Post by jimhenry »

raise wrote: 09-18-21 3:54 pm HI, i tried to filter out cc:123, and that works in Midi-ox,but then it looks like the sustain pedal is down.
And there is no "notes off". If i take a fast step on the keyboard, the notes off coming.
I dont know how to fix this.
If the MIDI file has a sustain pedal on with no pedal off, MIDI CC 64 with a positive value and no 0 value. That will sound like hanging notes. Maybe filtering out the CC 64 messages will solve the problem. You do have to use a virtual MIDI cable to connect MIDI-OX to Synthesia as Bavi_H explained.

If CC 64 is the issue, you can remove them from the MIDI files with a MIDI editor.
Jim Henry
Author of the Miditzer, a free virtual theatre pipe organ
http://www.Miditzer.org/
raise
Posts: 6

Post by raise »

Hi again.
Now i have tried loop-midi,script,filtered cc64 and things like this. "All notes off" disapeard, but there is no "notes off",only if if had a quick touch at the keys. And i have trouble to get sound out of synthesia. The best i get was a bad sound, but there was a sound,and the keys working,but its one at a time. When i play something i need to lift my finger from the key before the next key work. I could not play a chord,there was one one note working. (Sorry for my english.)
So now, i give up technics, and will use a midi keyboard to use with synthesia.
I wonder if my midi to usb cable is ok ??? So i will ask: What is the best cable for this?

And thank you to all of you that help me here to try to find a solution.!!!
User avatar
jimhenry
Posts: 1865

Post by jimhenry »

The inexpensive "no name" cables are a source of many strange errors. The major brand name cables are usually okay.

Does your cable have an LED that flashes when you press a key? If so, there should be one flash when you press a key and a second flash when you release the key. MIDI-OX should show Note On at the first flash and Note Off at the second.
Jim Henry
Author of the Miditzer, a free virtual theatre pipe organ
http://www.Miditzer.org/
raise
Posts: 6

Post by raise »

Hi, yes my cable has flashlight, but i am not sure it works every time.
And yes, it is china/ebay, called "Element",its not the cheapest but.....????
So i think i will order a Roland UM-One.
I will try with this and see what happends.
Thank you for all answers.
raise
Posts: 6

Post by raise »

Hi again.
Now i got the Roland Um-One mk2, and......all WORKS !
So it was the cable.
Midi-Ox : Note on - Notes Off- CC All notes off
Now it works with synthesia,fl-studio and others.
I tried the other cable again in Casio Privia, Kawai K4, and it still works there.
I have not tried sysex with this one in Kawai K4, but now i got Roland.
So, to all buy a expensive cable or a box !
Thank you for all answers.
Bye.... :D
User avatar
jimhenry
Posts: 1865

Post by jimhenry »

raise wrote: 10-01-21 4:05 am Now i got the Roland Um-One mk2, and......all WORKS !
If you have strange problems and a "no name" MIDI to USB cable, try a name brand cable! This advice solves a lot of problems.
Jim Henry
Author of the Miditzer, a free virtual theatre pipe organ
http://www.Miditzer.org/
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