Manual Note Fingerings

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vicentefer31
Posts: 899
Location: Madrid, Spain

Post by vicentefer31 » 03-03-10 4:43 pm

I dont understand why this feature is not in the first position of the Feature Voting List.. For me manual note fingerings, after Bookmarks (Repeat loop option), is the most important tool for learning to play correctly the piano. So, if you think like me... vote it.
Thanks
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Picasso: I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it.

Nicholas
Posts: 12289

Post by Nicholas » 03-03-10 4:46 pm

Regarding why it's not as popular, if I had to guess, I wouldn't be able to use the feature myself because I don't know how to come up with fingerings in the first place. Unless you're just copying fingerings out of a book or something -- which sounds really monotonous -- Synthesia isn't helping you so much as just reminding you of something you already knew yourself.

vicentefer31
Posts: 899
Location: Madrid, Spain

Post by vicentefer31 » 03-03-10 4:52 pm

I hope in the future when this feature will be ready, Synthesia users can find easly a lot midis with fingerings like scales, arpegios, chords, hanon,.. and after that ...songs!!! :D

So vote for Manual Note Fingerings... what are you waiting for? ;)
Picasso: I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it.

Mos
Posts: 183
Location: Calgary, Canada

Post by Mos » 03-03-10 6:23 pm

I wana see this feature too. But one thing i ithink that have to happen for before this one: a dedicated database center for synthesia with advanced search and everything (rating, most popular, most downloaded....). And maybe do something like: this file is synthesia certified (by mods of database) if it has enough info, has two hands tracks, and everything is set right in the metadata...

That way sharing the files would be easy and most users will benefits from it by sharing the files. if we don't have that, it will be a pain to manually try to do all the files that you want!

but having this will open the copyright issue too which i think sucks...

vicentefer31
Posts: 899
Location: Madrid, Spain

Post by vicentefer31 » 03-04-10 4:06 am

Mos wrote:And maybe do something like: this file is synthesia certified (by mods of database) if it has enough info, has two hands tracks, and everything is set right in the metadata...
Maybe today, maybe tomorrow, maybe next month, maybe next year... I dont know when it will happen, but I know it will happen.
Mos wrote:That way sharing the files would be easy and most users will benefits from it by sharing the files. if we don't have that, it will be a pain to manually try to do all the files that you want!
I also trust in Frost's project. Sooner or later I hope he has good news about that.
Mos wrote:but having this will open the copyright issue too which i think sucks...
Take a look to your Song Library... How many songs have you made yourself?

So if you want to have a feature like this, vote for Manual Note Fingerings in theFeature Voting List.
Picasso: I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it.

tommai78101
Posts: 762

Post by tommai78101 » 03-04-10 11:53 am

If we could calculate the range of a finger touching the nearest and farthest keys at a fixed joint and manually increase/decrease the boundaries, I think it's possible to have a simple one. However, I don't think this is as useful as we thought it would be. :(
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Mos
Posts: 183
Location: Calgary, Canada

Post by Mos » 03-04-10 1:30 pm

vicentefer31 wrote: So if you want to have a feature like this, vote for Manual Note Fingerings in theFeature Voting List.
I already have the maximum amount on it :D

vicentefer31
Posts: 899
Location: Madrid, Spain

Post by vicentefer31 » 03-27-10 6:20 pm

To have this feature for the next release we need your votes. Vote to Manual Note Fingerings.
Imagine: falling notes + fingerings :o
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Picasso: I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it.

TieDyeGuy
Posts: 68

Post by TieDyeGuy » 04-09-10 9:52 pm

Nicholas wrote:Regarding why it's not as popular, if I had to guess, I wouldn't be able to use the feature myself because I don't know how to come up with fingerings in the first place. Unless you're just copying fingerings out of a book or something -- which sounds really monotonous -- Synthesia isn't helping you so much as just reminding you of something you already knew yourself.
To me that is exactly the point. I am just learning to play. So I need more than a reminder, I don't know which fingers to use. I use Synthesia along side books and other tutorial media that gives me the fingering information. I would be overjoyed to be able to copy the fingerings to be saved with the midi.
Mos wrote:And maybe do something like: this file is synthesia certified (by mods of database) if it has enough info, has two hands tracks, and everything is set right in the metadata...
I would then love to see a shared library like Mos describes and would enjoy contributing.
Mos wrote:That way sharing the files would be easy and most users will benefits from it by sharing the files. if we don't have that, it will be a pain to manually try to do all the files that you want!
It will be a pain getting that information in, but sharing and peer review would certainly make it more rewarding for everyone.
Mos wrote:but having this will open the copyright issue too which i think sucks...
I am no lawyer, but if a midi is created using anvil or an equivalent program from sheet music, then the metadata is added, I do not see how that could be construed as a copyright infringement. If it were, then every cover band or karaoke singer would be in trouble. Wouldn’t they? We wouldn’t be claiming that we wrote the song and nor distributing commercially recorded material. We would be describing material that we had heard in a particularly specific format. Maybe I should be a lawyer. lol

I love Synthesia and think Nicholas is at least a demi-god among men. But the reason that I get frustrated with the program is that without the fingering information, I feel like any practice that I do is wasted or even detrimental, because I am probably reinforcing bad habits. If I knew that I was playing correctly, I would spend more time generating compatible midis for sure. But if I have to memorize the song (fingering) before playing it with Synthesia, I feel that I have lost most of the potential value of using it.

I hope that the Frost project is fruitful. It is an amazing and ambitious effort. But I would like to see the manual fingering option in the mean time. I do not think that it will be a wasted effort even if Frost’s work is successful. Surly there will be songs that merit an alternative fingering than predicted by any software. The manual fingering could then be a selectable alternative.

So when (if) manual fingering becomes available, count me in for midi/meta contributions and other db library assistance. In short, I’m with vicentefer and also have cast my max votes on this one. Ok, back to lurking.
Thanks - tdg
Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is the best. - FRANK ZAPPA

Nicholas
Posts: 12289

Post by Nicholas » 04-09-10 10:10 pm

TieDyeGuy wrote:...every cover band or karaoke singer would be in trouble. Wouldn’t they?
Typical garage-based cover bands are. Karaoke tracks are explicitly licensed for karaoke, so they're not.

It is my understanding that if a cover band actually wants to record their cover and sell it, they must obtain permission (sometimes including a royalty or license fee).

Parody is a little different. But that is covered by different laws and is not infringement.
TieDyeGuy wrote:I hope that the Frost project is fruitful.
Me too. He just posted here like two days ago! I wonder what he's up to.

Frost
Posts: 51

Post by Frost » 04-10-10 6:03 am

AFP is growing, but not much new results I'm afraid. My first copy was done as a simple prototype, with quite a bit of hacks. Now that the implementation is getting bigger, it was not going to work, so I started refactoring, rewriting the main part. It's not too long, but I still can't find free time. I will have a somewhat working version when manual note fingerings gets released, I hope :). From there, everyone can test their results and hopefully we'll tune the parameters to a usable version.

Bissrok
Posts: 341

Post by Bissrok » 04-10-10 9:29 am

I think this and the sheet-only display are the most important upcoming features. With those two combined, Synthesia becomes just as viable of a learning tool as anything else on the market (save for a personal instructor), but it would be much cheaper, easier to use, and better at letting you know what you're doing wrong than something like the piano books you'd buy at the store.

Yeah, it might take a bit of time to get the notes labeled for a lot of the songs but, with every feature that's added, the playerbase grows. There's people out there that'll go through the monotonous chore of labeling every last note and, over time, we'll get there. And at that point you could go from never having played a note to being able to rattle of Scott Joplin with just one free program. Let's see other piano games try to compete against that.

Nicholas
Posts: 12289

Post by Nicholas » 04-10-10 11:40 pm

It's cool to hear you're still working on AFP, too. I was hoping -- because we hadn't seen you in such a long time -- that you hadn't abandoned it. If you can guarantee it'll be ready by the time manual fingerings are in, I could totally expedite manual fingerings. ;)

maccer
Posts: 222
Location: Sweden

Post by maccer » 04-11-10 5:24 am

TieDyeGuy wrote:I love Synthesia and think Nicholas is at least a demi-god among men. But the reason that I get frustrated with the program is that without the fingering information, I feel like any practice that I do is wasted or even detrimental, because I am probably reinforcing bad habits. If I knew that I was playing correctly, I would spend more time generating compatible midis for sure. But if I have to memorize the song (fingering) before playing it with Synthesia, I feel that I have lost most of the potential value of using it.
After practicing using the Piano Handbook for a while, I've realized how important it is to use a correct fingering. So I kind of agree with TieDyeGuy. I wouldn't say that my practice is wasted – I still think it's useful to learn to play new songs – but learning them using the correct fingering would be much more useful and probably faster, too!

When/if we get fingering information if should of course be shown in the sheet music display, too:
sheet_fingerings.jpg
sheet_fingerings.jpg (110.47 KiB) Viewed 7304 times
Songs learned using Synthesia:
CT: Wind Scene, The Trial | FF7: Prelude | SMB: Overworld, Underwater | Tetris: Theme A | Zelda: Lost Woods | Other: Für Elise

Nicholas
Posts: 12289

Post by Nicholas » 04-11-10 2:44 pm

maccer wrote:When/if we get fingering information if should of course be shown in the sheet music display
Yeah, that was the intent. Originally that was the first place I had intended to show it, but now that we have general note/key annotations, it's pretty easy to include them there too.

Lanselta
Posts: 2

Post by Lanselta » 06-23-10 5:54 am

I already made a post on the AFP thread, but i too feel that this is of upmost importance in me learning. I certainly dont mind having to manually enter this information myself, for i feel its probably a good part of learning a song. Then i could place it on a DB somewhere for others to use. The program is excellent! I can download what i want to play from Mutopia, or other sites, and keep on practicing until i get it.

Keep up the good work fellas!

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