Lessons / Traning mode

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TonE
Synthesia Donor
Posts: 1180

Post by TonE » 07-28-10 6:16 am

Here is one example screenshot of how a plot can look like using the new --copy-score features for the whole song:
Song Performance Curves.jpg
song performance curves
Song Performance Curves.jpg (158.8 KiB) Viewed 9889 times
I am waiting until the "looping artifacts" are solved in Synthesia, then I will see how well we can use "looping score information" to build the "Kasper style playing" of Synthesia. After a little testing I can share the solution here, so all Windows users of Synthesia can use it also, if they like and want it.

A little explanation of the above curves: In general the higher the curve is the better (except for speed).

ACHIEVEMENT: The most important curve is the BLUE Achievement curve which shows the score in relation to the maximum possible score at a given speed.
SPEED: You can check/see the given speed as the RED curve. A positive slope in the red curve means you achieved an Achievement value above 90% (then the speed is auto-increased for 5%) and a negative slope in the red curve means you achieved an Achievement value less than 90% (then the speed is auto-decreased for 5%).
EXTRA TIME: WHITE curve, here I am plotting minus Extra time + 100 to be able to plot all curves nicely into one diagram.
EXTRA NOTES: YELLOW curve, same principle as in extra time.
HOLDING SCORE: GREEN curve, the higher the better again.

Here is the data from which the above plot was generated, the columns ExtraTime and ExtraNotes are already those - ExtraTime + 100 and - ExtraNotes + 100 calculations:

Code: Select all

AbsoluteMinutes,Score,Achievement,Speed,Time,ExtraTime,ExtraNotes,HoldingScore
693,7860,80.204082,80,11:33,93.205000,97,81.3
695,8217,83.846939,80,11:35,96.536000,100,66.7
696,7992,81.969231,75,11:36,97.209000,95,69.8
697,7328,75.546392,70,11:37,94.855000,93,66.3
698,8304,86.051813,65,11:38,94.444000,99,91.9
703,7946,82.770833,60,11:43,95.070000,99,75.1
705,8342,87.350785,55,11:45,94.416000,99,97.3
706,8567,90.178947,50,11:46,95.734000,100,97.5
706,8857,92.743455,55,11:46,97.653000,100,93.7
707,8737,91.010417,60,11:47,97.438000,100,88.5

TonE
Synthesia Donor
Posts: 1180

Post by TonE » 08-03-10 6:39 am

Nicholas wrote:Though... it's getting pretty late, so I didn't take the time to think it through. I might take a crack at it in the morning. :D
Did you think about it again in the morning? :)

vicentefer31
Posts: 899
Location: Madrid, Spain

Post by vicentefer31 » 08-03-10 4:51 pm

When I read this post I have remembered a post I wrote in May 2009. Maybe someone can have new good ideas after read it again.
vicentefer31 wrote:I have a new idea to add to improve Practice Mode and it´s very easy. The new Practice Mode should have 3 options:
a) Normal: It´s the currently Practice Mode. In this option you can play a song until it ends, no matter how many errors or extra time you have had.
b) By notes errors: You can do until for example 10 note errors, when you have this 10 error then you see in the screen "Game Over"
c) By extra time: You have for example 10 seconds of extra time and if you use more than these seconds then "Game Over".

Option b) and c) are like when you are playing for example with Mario Bros, when you start the game you have 5 lifes and you are playing the game until you spend this lifes and then "Game Over". Even Synthesia could add bonus for extra time or extra notes if you are playing very well or something like this.
Picasso: I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it.

TonE
Synthesia Donor
Posts: 1180

Post by TonE » 08-03-10 5:12 pm

vicentefer31 wrote:b) By notes errors: You can do until for example 10 note errors, when you have this 10 error then you see in the screen "Game Over"
c) By extra time: You have for example 10 seconds of extra time and if you use more than these seconds then "Game Over".

Option b) and c) are like when you are playing for example with Mario Bros, when you start the game you have 5 lifes and you are playing the game until you spend this lifes and then "Game Over". Even Synthesia could add bonus for extra time or extra notes if you are playing very well or something like this.
Those options match quite well with my recent post in viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1957&p=12555#p12542 only those are for loop segments, thus any comparison we can make at the end of each loop only, as we have access to those information only there.

But my idea with real-time error event output in the form of midi events, would make easily your suggestion possible. Then you would simply count those error events, and break the game at a given condition, then display a message GAME OVER. But a built in solution would be also nice.

Also the "Kasper style playing" will actually do something similar, only you are moving forward in steps of loop segments, if you play well enough you get the right to continue with next step, until you finish the song. This would also give Mario/Giana Sisters/Wonderboy feeling I think. Btw. I love the melodies of Wonderboy 1 on C64! See this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpPn3s_-NRc

vicentefer31
Posts: 899
Location: Madrid, Spain

Post by vicentefer31 » 08-04-10 4:54 am

Hi TonE, when I was a child I played a lot of with Ghosts N Goblins. It's very similar to your video. :lol:
Picasso: I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it.

Nicholas
Posts: 12435

Post by Nicholas » 08-04-10 11:58 am

vicentefer31 wrote:Ghosts N Goblins... is very similar to your video. :lol:
And super-difficult!

Off-topic: I also played a lot of Ghost N Goblins in my childhood: proof that I'm a little crazy.

vicentefer31
Posts: 899
Location: Madrid, Spain

Post by vicentefer31 » 08-05-10 4:11 am

:shock:
Picasso: I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it.

TonE
Synthesia Donor
Posts: 1180

Post by TonE » 08-05-10 4:19 am

Nicholas wrote:Off-topic: I also played a lot of Ghost N Goblins in my childhood: proof that I'm a little crazy.
They look very beautiful, respects, very original hobby.

Nicholas
Posts: 12435

Post by Nicholas » 08-05-10 2:29 pm

TonE wrote:They look very beautiful, respects, very original hobby.
Thanks! I would claim that was 250 hours well spent over the course of 3 years. ;)

Allow me to continue derailing this topic. Here is a little more, if you're interested. Top pictures are from our old apartment, but the pictures near the bottom of the page are fairly recent -- my office still mostly looks like that -- and you can see a bit of my P-70 and iMac development area peeking around the corner.

TonE
Synthesia Donor
Posts: 1180

Post by TonE » 08-05-10 3:15 pm

Great, now we know also where the boss is sitting. I like the idea using walls freely for such effects, I might think about this also to make the room of my nephews more beautiful maybe. Isn't there any alternative, less time consuming technique to use? I mean in simplest case you could simply print on paper and the papers at the wall, but that would be too simple. Next step maybe laminated paper, so nobody can destroy them any more. Other ideas?

Nicholas
Posts: 12435

Post by Nicholas » 08-05-10 3:20 pm

Actually those beads (Perler or Hama beads, for your search engines) are reasonably fast to use, cheap, and can be quite a bit of fun.

And there is something the pictures don't convey. Because the beads themselves have a little bit of depth to them, it creates a (really) pleasing 3D effect. Like, the small shadow fall-off on the sides of each sprite does something to your brain to make it look really cool.

It's the cross-stitch I wouldn't recommend to anybody. ;)

A sprite done in cross-stitch: 6 hours.
A sprite done in Perler beads: 10 minutes.

TonE
Synthesia Donor
Posts: 1180

Post by TonE » 08-12-10 4:20 am

Nicholas wrote:Actually those beads (Perler or Hama beads, for your search engines) are reasonably fast to use, cheap, and can be quite a bit of fun.
Thanks for the info Nicholas, how do you work then, do you get a nice image of what you want to build, resave it in the right dpi (which is right?) and zoom into it, until you see the pixels?

Nicholas
Posts: 12435

Post by Nicholas » 08-12-10 5:10 am

Pretty much. I tried being all technical up-front by writing a program that would choose the most-accurate colors (there are only like 50 or so bead colors available)... but that took away about half the creative fun. Now I just eye-ball it and come up with a palette on my own.

But yeah, basically cobble together an image in MS Paint or Photoshop or whatever, and use it directly as a guide.

usthAdh007
Posts: 2
Location: New York

Post by usthAdh007 » 09-09-10 12:54 am

Hi! Friendz... call me an 'Illiterate' for not understanding the Programmer's Language coz i ddnt understand a lot of what u guys were saying... Wud like to share some ideas with u guyz to enhance Synthesia (if u guyz think it'll)... Please read the whole thing and lemme know any part u guyz ddnt understand... just sharing my idea coz i'm really impressed with Synthesia. One day i hope to learn to read notes.

its gonna be hard for me to really explain it, but i'll try... (I'll use myself as the player)

# Game Mode : I play one time from start to finish and the score I get is the one displayed on the Score Board. Which wud be the real 'Hall of Fame'...

#Lesson/Training/Learning/Study Mode : In this mode we can select Beginner's/Intermediate's/and-whoever-comes-next's Lessons.

This mode has 'Settings' option... and in it...
1) Loops : In this I can divide a song into 2 or 3 or 4 parts depending how I wanna learn it...
I choose the song 'Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do' and for me to learn it, I create loops in the beginning itself...
e.g. 1: Loop 1: frm Do to Re / Loop 2: frm Mi to Fa / Loop 3: frm So to La / Loop 4: frm Ti to Do... (Loops dont overlap...)
e.g. 2: Loop 1: frm Do to Re / Loop 2: frm Re to Fa / Loop 3: frm Fa to La / Loop 4: frm So to Do... (Loops r overlapping each other...)

2) Grade : For example, D C B B+ A A+... I'll b choosing the Threshold Grade of a Loop so as to enter the next loop. If i'm choosing 'B' as the Threshold Grade, i'll skip to the next loop as soon as the score related to tht Grade is reached. If i chose A+, unless and until i play the first loop perfect, it wont go into the next loop. The Training ends as soon as the score related to the Threshold Grade of the last Loop is reached. The Final Score wud b the average of the scores that i got by playing the loops. As the number of Loops and Replays increase, ofcourse the Average Score wud b low. The score wud b way down compared to the 'Game Mode' score but this Mode shud help me to perform well in the 'Game Mode'. (Training Mode and Game Mode shud hav diff Score Boards)(The only way to really get the highest score in Training Mode is to play it again in the Threshold Score of A+ and finish it in one shot...)

3) Notations : ON or OFF . If 'ON' it will show the Notations and according to the performance the Notes will turn Blue, Green and Red. It's to help the me learn Notations and to perform better by seeing what mistakes I am doing while playing the song.
The whole notation starts in Black...
- If I don't hold down the key enough amount of time, tht note will turn BLUE (think of someone who is not getting enough Oxygen)...
- If the key was held for the right amount of time showing GREEN (Ecofriendly... everybody's happy)...
- If the key is held down for more time than it was needed, it'll turn RED (like someone turning Red with anger)...
After checking the notes and the colors on it, I know how much amount of time is needed for a key and will hav a knowledge about the Notes... (Which i'm hoping to see coz i dont know anything abt reading notes... and i wanna learn it using Synthesia)

4) Fingering : ON or OFF
if ON... a) Numbering : The finger numbers would b written on the tip of the Falling Notes.
b) Coloured: I choose what colour I want, from a palette, for each finger, and that specific color would be solid at the tip of the Falling Notes and fades into the color the I chose for the Falling Notes.

I feel like if we hav all these options, a lot of people wud b buying Synthesia to learn Piano frm the very basic. All these ideas came to me whn i tried playing a song and i was not able to play Left Hand at all. I definitely need basic training and i wanna learn it in the right way with the right fingering. Fingering is 'ON or Off' option coz some people dont care what finger they use and for them their aim is to play the song whichever finger they use. But i think if we know the which finger is supposed to go on a given Note, it'll help us to play piano without looking at the keyz... (same like typing on the keyboard...i've to look whn i type... :roll: )

Sorry for the loooooooooooooooooooooong posting... I know tht "Rome cannot b built in a day"... Hope u guys will respond... take care my friendz...

Nicholas
Posts: 12435

Post by Nicholas » 09-09-10 11:46 pm

There are a lot of good suggestions here. A few of them I've heard before from other users. That's a good thing because the more times people independently come up with the same solution, the more likely it is to be the right one.

Game Mode: having a "play straight through" mode with no rewinding, looping, (no metronome?) and with a fixed speed is actually something I was going to have to do just to make the online scoreboard stuff work -- the Hall of Fame, like you called it. It feels like this mode most-closely resembles the final recital after you're ready to perform the piece in front of others. That is apt, because the scoreboard score will appear in front of others.

Lesson/Training/Learning/Study Mode: I've heard suggestions where you would "keep looping until you can do it with less than X seconds of +extra time", but I really like tying it into the existing scoring system (which already factors in the extra time). That way, it would be robust against future scoring system changes. Though, maybe for some extra flexibility, you could choose what you wanted to get for each sub-grade instead. Right now practice scoring combines two grades (one for missed notes and one for extra time) into one. Maybe you could say "keep looping until my missed notes grade is an A" or pick the top-level one and keep it "keep looping until my overall grade is an A".

Regarding the Blue/Green/Red thing, I hadn't really worked out how it was going to look, but "Performance Analysis" on the voting list should be able to do something just like that when I finish it. There will be all the indications you suggested (too early, too short, too long) right there in the overlay. The use of color like you suggested would probably be a good way to represent it, too.

And fingering is always the holy grail, whether they're added manually or automatically. I really need to build some way to get them in there.

Thanks again for all those suggestions!

usthAdh007
Posts: 2
Location: New York

Post by usthAdh007 » 09-10-10 12:13 am

glad to hear tht u liked my suggestions... i dont know how to write programs or i wud hav gladly helped you with the 'work in progress' on Synthesia... waiting eagerly for the next update... :)

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