in game chord identifyer

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swalker133
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Location: @iosmusician

Post by swalker133 » 08-30-10 11:46 am

i think it that an in game chord identirfyer wouldbe a cool feature... i think it should work like this.......

there would be a little box in a corner of the screen and when ever you play 3 or more unique notes in the game, the chord is shown in the box, i know what a chord identifyer is already an option but i think it should be in game.....

thanks!
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Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas » 08-30-10 12:48 pm

286 votes on the feature voting page agree with you. ;)

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swalker133
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Post by swalker133 » 08-30-10 2:19 pm

so the way i described is exactly how its going to be?..?
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Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas » 08-30-10 2:44 pm

Pretty close. It'll be a totally different place you go (no songs involved). The reason is because when you press 3 notes, you're actually playing many different (at least partial and inverted) chords from lots of different keys.

The chord library will try to identify the most likely chord and show you the rest, too. I'll hopefully be able to fit some cool visualization in there too -- possibly with music theory relevance -- along the lines of the app TonE mentioned here.

Another reason to have it broken out into a separate screen (with a cool visualization) is to piggyback another popular suggestion on it: to have a free-play area where you can just free-style whatever you like.

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cairnz
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Post by cairnz » 08-30-10 3:11 pm

This freestyle should spit out notes (scrolloing upwards) - then let you try it again by coming down again (in the correct direction ofcourse). :)

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swalker133
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Post by swalker133 » 10-27-10 6:13 pm

i think that an in game chord identifier would be better (im not trying to be rude...) so that when you are learning to play a song using the program, you will be able to know the progression... :geek:
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jimhenry
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Post by jimhenry » 10-27-10 6:58 pm

Are you suggesting adding a chord symbol to the dropping notes display based on the notes you are supposed to play? If so, perhaps that should be combined with fingering as additional information that could be displayed along with the note symbols. I ask because when I first read your suggestion I thought you were asking for a display of the chord symbol for the notes you actually played. As Nicholas pointed out, that is not so easy to do. Upon further thought, it seemed like I might have misunderstood what you were suggesting.

Before we let Nicholas off the hook too easily :P maybe we should ask for an option that accepts any valid performance of the chord (or at least a reasonable number of variants). This might be combined with an option to display the chord symbol in place of the notes.
Jim Henry
Author of the Miditzer, a free virtual theatre pipe organ
http://www.Miditzer.org/

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swalker133
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Post by swalker133 » 10-27-10 7:27 pm

i actually did not put any thought into weather it would be the game detecting the notes you are supposed to play or the notes that you are playing, i also don't really see if one would be better that another.... :? (not meaning that in a rude way...) i say go for what ever one would be less of a hassle...

but to me it just seems like an in-game chord identifier would be a lot more useful, because then you would be able to see (with out having to leave the game) what chord you are playing, as opposed having to quit the song, go all the way back to the main screen, open up the chord identifier and then have to remember what keys you were holding down...
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jimhenry
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Post by jimhenry » 10-27-10 8:14 pm

In terms of hassle, I'm pretty sure adding the chord symbol to the MIDI chord notes, either in the MIDI file or in an associated file, would be much easier than identifying multiple notes being played.

However, the important question is what are we trying to do for the player. Synthesia is doing two jobs in the GUI: first it is telling the user what they are supposed to do, i.e. dropping the note blocks to say what note to play, when, and for how long; second it tells the user what they are doing by lighting the on-screen keys, doing particle flashes, and uncoloring the note blocks. So do we want to tell the user what chord they are going to play so they can learn the song in terms of chord progression and learn how the chords translate into notes? Or do we want to give the user feedback on what they are playing in terms of a chord, which is another form of telling them what they are doing right or wrong?

To me it seems that the greater value is in learning the chord progression in a song regardless of what you manage to play. It is just a bonus that I think that is easier to do. But maybe you or someone else thinks knowing what chord you did play is more useful and I invite you to explain your reasons for that view.

This does bring up something else that picked up from this very interesting interview with the Rock Band creators: http://createdigitalmusic.com/2010/10/2 ... he-scenes/ Perhaps we should be displaying key signatures in some form. The Rock Band people went back and forth over that. The keyboard people wanted key signatures, presumably because it helps a keyboard player know what pattern of white and black keys they are going to be using and it tells you what chords you will be choosing from. The design and UI people didn't want key signatures because to them it was clutter, understandable given how much they have to squeeze onto the screen. Perhaps Synthesia should provide key signature information because it is directed exclusively to keyboard players and it doesn't have as much of a screen crowding problem as RB.
Jim Henry
Author of the Miditzer, a free virtual theatre pipe organ
http://www.Miditzer.org/

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swalker133
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Post by swalker133 » 10-27-10 8:37 pm

key signatures are a good idea too, but to answer your question, i think the in game chord identifier would be good for many reasons:

-it would make the user more familiar with new chords that they might not have been exposed to before
-it would give the user more of a understanding of music theory by showing them inversions, progressions, and how different chords are constructed
-it would make memorizing the song easier; you would be able to remember that the songs progression instead of having to memorize what keys to be playing for each chord.
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Pianotehead
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Post by Pianotehead » 10-27-10 9:56 pm

I for one would rather like to see the chord symbols associated with the notes BEFORE they are played, like jimhenry explained either above the bars or as a symbol down below. Don't see the point in showing what notes one is playing in the song, provided they are the wrong notes. Except there would be a chord/improvization mode in the game, when you're not playing a song, maybe that's the idea behind Exhibition mode, haven't checked it out.

For example let's say you-re supposed to play a C-chord, C-E-G-C (an extra C.) When the bars hit the keyboard you accidentally play C-E-G-B, a C major 7th chord. Should the game show a C or a C maj7 chord, or both? If it's too complicated to show the right chord and the played one, I'd rather like it show the right one. Oh, I forgot the game stops until you play the right notes!

Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas » 10-28-10 2:06 am

jimhenry wrote:Perhaps we should be displaying key signatures in some form...
I've been kind of frazzled lately, so I'm starting to forget what I've mentioned here in the forums vs. what's in distributed-across-four-different-methods of note taking vs. what I've never fixed into a tangible medium that is still in my head. ;)

That said, a few times I've mused over having annotations over in the margin area (like the falling measure numbers) that would "stick" to the bottom left of the screen instead of continuing to scroll by. These would be things like time signatures, key signatures, and (given the right detection algorithm :? or some up-front metadata) current chord in the chord progression.

You'd see a change coming, falling at the same speed as the notes and measure numbers. But, just as it hit bottom it would stop and continue to display until the next change came and dislodged it.

(That was a great article, by the way. I hadn't seen that. I love those guys.)

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swalker133
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Post by swalker133 » 10-28-10 11:46 am

okay, what if on the bottom of the screen, there wold be a little box that would tell you what chord you are prompted to play... it could be an option to turn on and off this function at the screen where you chose practice/rythem mode, and how many keys to display... and Pianotehead, what do u mean by "Don't see the point in showing what notes one is playing in the song," there is already an option to do that isn't there? where the letter names of all the notes are inside the falling notes? i think u must have read someting i said incorrectly (no offense), or i must have put down something that i didn't actually mean to say...

and also it could be a learning pack only option...
Learning, creating, recording, and performing music on the iPhone and iPad...
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Pianotehead
Posts: 319

Post by Pianotehead » 10-28-10 3:42 pm

Sorry swalker133 for being so unclear about this. What I meant was I don't see the point in showing what chord you're playing, provided it's the wrong chord (or keys, because incorrect keys pressed can possibly be no chord at all, just randomly played notes.)

When you play wrong keys they just show on the keyboard figure in the game, that is, the played keys turn gray. Note names do not appear on the keyboard, if it's a possibillity then I missed something and someone may well inform how to turn that feature on.

But it would be good to show the chord name of the right notes, the ones you're supposed to play in a particular song (again, not the keys you press if they are the wrong ones.) I haven't made up my mind whether it should be on the bottom of the screen, beside the falling bars or on the keyboard diagram itself.

Hope this is clearer now, if not please let me know you guys.

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swalker133
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Post by swalker133 » 10-28-10 5:17 pm

Pianotehead wrote:Sorry swalker133 for being so unclear about this. What I meant was I don't see the point in showing what chord you're playing, provided it's the wrong chord (or keys, because incorrect keys pressed can possibly be no chord at all, just randomly played notes.)

When you play wrong keys they just show on the keyboard figure in the game, that is, the played keys turn gray. Note names do not appear on the keyboard, if it's a possibillity then I missed something and someone may well inform how to turn that feature on.

But it would be good to show the chord name of the right notes, the ones you're supposed to play in a particular song (again, not the keys you press if they are the wrong ones.) I haven't made up my mind whether it should be on the bottom of the screen, beside the falling bars or on the keyboard diagram itself.

Hope this is clearer now, if not please let me know you guys.
i kindove understand what your saying...
but i think that if an in game chord identifier was added, the program should tell you what chord you are supposed to play, meaning it would examine the midi file and it would display the name of the chord you are prompted to play, and this would only work in practice mode because thats the only mode that prompts you to play the notes. This way would be better so when the user hits the incorrect keys, they will not be confused...
Learning, creating, recording, and performing music on the iPhone and iPad...
http://www.iosmusician.com/

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