Those long vertical lines

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Peej
Posts: 16

Post by Peej »

I was trying to think of a way to (re-)arrange them that helps (me) orient my hand better.

I'm guessing you've already played around with it some, so you already know what looks more/less confusing, and I don't know how hard they are to add/remove, but I figure I'll throw out some ideas anyway. ;)
  • Put a darker line between ever B and C to denote octaves
  • Make all of the "black key" lines the same, or very similar color
  • Make "white key" lines also, perhaps a whitish-grey color
  • Alternate between darker/lighter grey for the entire background between octaves
You probably don't want to do all of these (together, anyway). It's hard for me to visualize how much help any particular idea would be (I get the feeling doing 1, 2, and 3 would just provide a disorienting mass of vertical lines, but then again, it may end up being helpful).

If it's easy to do, could you make some screenshots of what these options might look like? Or if it's not, I can just try to draw some lines in MS Paint or something... :lol:

edit: I made up the word disoriently :oops:
Nicholas
Posts: 13135

Post by Nicholas »

So, right now the game uses Klavar notation. But, it might be a good idea to explore some other options. (I think things will automatically get less confusing when I get the "zoom to my keyboard" and "zoom to song extents" options in there, but it could always be better.)

Are these what you had in mind?
Darker line between B and C
Darker line between B and C
guides_1.png (5.89 KiB) Viewed 17937 times
Black lines the same
Black lines the same
guides_2.png (3.23 KiB) Viewed 17937 times
Whitish-gray lines for white keys
Whitish-gray lines for white keys
guides_3.png (3.22 KiB) Viewed 17936 times
Alternating octave background
Alternating octave background
guides_4.png (3.24 KiB) Viewed 17935 times
Peej
Posts: 16

Post by Peej »

I'll bet Cornelius Pot would be really good at this game. ;)

The dotted-lines for C# and D# above middle C is another good idea; you could make them dotted, or just make them the whitish-grey color (assuming staying with this format and not using white lines elsewhere). Also, I think doing something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Klav ... in_3-E.png could be helpful too. Maybe just have them nearly match the background color so they wouldn't distract too much from the rest of the screen.

As far as my suggestions went, they all look like I pictured, except the white-key one: I had in mind the white lines extending down to the center of every white key, the same as for each black key.

Of course, every one of these feels like it could be a setup option. :lol:

Bar lines: On / Off
Octave lines: On / Off
White key lines: On / Off

etc
maccer
Posts: 222

Post by maccer »

Peej wrote:Of course, every one of these feels like it could be a setup option. :lol:

Bar lines: On / Off
Octave lines: On / Off
White key lines: On / Off

etc
I agree, it should be easier to distinguish between different octaves. If I would have to choose from the images that Nicholas attached, I'd pick the last one (alternating octave background), but the best solution would of course be to have options as Peej suggests.

It would probably also help to have some sort of markers on the keys themselves. The game should sense how many keys your keyboad has available, and then mark the leftmost/rightmost key and middle C in some way.
Songs learned using Synthesia:
CT: Wind Scene, The Trial | FF7: Prelude | SMB: Overworld, Underwater | Tetris: Theme A | Zelda: Lost Woods | Other: Für Elise
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kumori
Synthesia Donor
Posts: 11

Post by kumori »

maccer wrote:It would probably also help to have some sort of markers on the keys themselves. The game should sense how many keys your keyboad has available, and then mark the leftmost/rightmost key and middle C in some way.
It's not possible for software to detect the keyboard layout :'(, so the only way to do this would be to let the user set this option. Or maybe use a wizard with "Please press the leftmost key" and "Please press the rightmost key" that shows the first time you start the game (*remembers the old days with joystick calibration* 8-) ). edit: I was thinking solely on MIDI-devices. It should be possible to recognize usb-devices, and assign keys according to that. Sounds like lots of nasty research job though... ^^

But I agree. Right now, when playing, the keys displayed at the bottom seems to have a fixed width, but if it could be dynamic, and to only represent the keys on your real keyboard, it would be awesome :)

And following the sime line of thought, a nice feature (for us using smaller keyboards) would be to be able to see if all the notes in a song is in the "keyboard range", before or when I load it. But I guess editing a common dialogue like "Open" would be much of a hassle. (i.e. to only display songs with all tones within keyboardrange). But hey, I'm just being lazy here. ;D
Nicholas
Posts: 13135

Post by Nicholas »

Kumori is right. The only way to know the size of the keyboard (USB-specific proprietary drivers aside) is to ask the user to press the lowest and highest notes.

The software keyboard that's coming up in 0.6.2 will start to address some of the issues involved and lay the groundwork for the display options you guys brought up. Specifically, because the software keyboard is of a known size (about 1.5 octaves), the remainder of the full keyboard will be darkened to better locate which note a key-press will hit. Later, that can be extended to darken whatever range the user defines for their external device. Also, the same octave +/- keys (that are absolutely necessary for the software keyboard) will even work for MIDI device input too, so if you have a smaller 49 or 61 key device, you'll still be able to play most everything, regardless of the song's note range.

Now these aren't official, but I expect the 0.6.3 feature list will include the "zoom to 88", "zoom to my keyboard", and "zoom to song extents" options.

Finally, about the various guide styles, the pictures above were just quick Photoshop mock-ups. I'll be able to get those in the game at some point, but it'll take a little more effort. (No guarantees ;) ) but they should make one of the 0.6.x releases.
jamma
Posts: 2

Post by jamma »

Maybe something like this?
Attachments
guide.jpg
guide.jpg (29.85 KiB) Viewed 17836 times
white52black36
Posts: 11

Post by white52black36 »

I would strongly suggest this one. Even though it's only two per octave, I've found that the actual sight-reading goes much faster in my experience.
Everyone can tell the difference between the dark and thin and the white notes.
Attachments
note reading.JPG
note reading.JPG (31.55 KiB) Viewed 17662 times
white52black36
Posts: 11

Post by white52black36 »

This is a better one, my apologies.
Attachments
keyboard.JPG
keyboard.JPG (21.7 KiB) Viewed 17659 times
Nicholas
Posts: 13135

Post by Nicholas »

Yeah, that's another nice variation. I've been thinking about it, and it seems like the best way to give everyone what they want at the same time is to build a nice customizable system. It'll probably help people find what works best for them. Imagine the "Borders and Shading" screen in Excel.

On an options screen, two octaves would be shown and you could set the "guide" for each note independently. You could choose the thickness and color of the line between notes, through the center of each note, and on the borders between white and black keys. You'd also get to pick a fill color for every note. Showing two octaves lets you create alternating patterns.

That should allow every pattern suggested in this thread to be created pretty easily.
Jande22
Posts: 8

Post by Jande22 »

I'd like to make a small contribution to the arrangement if thats ok.. my idea will be posted in this in the form of an edit upon completion but may be late tomorrow before i get to it i have to work lol
This one isnt that great but oh well
Image
I like this one second best last one is my favorite though. as the notes actually would pass under the note indicator
Image
This one is my favorite due to the notes traveling under the hit indicator.
Image
Phil
Posts: 9

Post by Phil »

Another suggestion to help the user to get prepared to play the coming notes :

For the moment, the note on the piano gets coloured when it is time to play it, i.e. when the falling bar has reached the bottom line.

I think it would be helpful to colour the note to be played even before the falling bar has reached the bottom line. To avoid confusion, the colour would be initially very fade (or very transparent ?), but would exponentially darken (up to the moment when the falling bar reaches the bottom line). However, a significant colour difference should remain between the last moment before note activation and the note activation itself (to keep a clear indication that the note has to be played now).
Tell me if it is not clear enough, I will then try to illustrate this with figures.
membra
Posts: 18

Post by membra »

That would be nice for scales or easy songs, but the problem comes in when you get to more complex classical pieces. With those you might end up with all the keys lit up and it would be as good as not having that option. You'd end up with something like this :
aquarium.jpg
aquarium.jpg (62.41 KiB) Viewed 17404 times
Sam
Synthesia Donor
Posts: 13

Post by Sam »

I'm totally in for the changing background color one, I'm pretty confident it would improve the game a great deal, and it's clean.

And as for configuration capabilities, I'd like to say that it's up to the designer to make the decisions for the users most of the time, and keep the configuration minimal. In a restaurant, it's the chef who decides what's on the menu, not the customers ― some have tried, but it's a disaster ― I guess it's the same for software.

Well anyway, apparently you've kept the game minimal so far, I'd say stay in that direction ― I could be wrong, but then there's apple, and firefox, and others who seem to be pretty succesfull with that mind-set.
membra
Posts: 18

Post by membra »

Well, the game has to appear minimal because the user is dealing with so many keys compared to other games. If you add too many things it could easily get distracting, and trust me, I'm usually all for good graphics etc, thats why I'm in the gaming industry, but this is a different case. Remember, games like Rock Band and guitar hero only have about 5 keys, it's dumbed down purposefully so that you can live yourself into the situation without having to think about anything else. The purpose of entertainment is to entertain.

Calling Synthesia a game isn't entirely correct, playing the piano is too complex to be purely entertainment, it's half about learning and hard work, and half about entertainment which can only be achieved by the hard work. I see Synthesia as a tool to make the learning and hard work side of it more enjoyable. The entertainment comes in the scoring, through competition with yourself or others. Making the visuals less minimal would detract from the learning process because you won't be focusing on what you are playing. I guess it's up to Nicholas what his focus is for Synthesia, but seeing as a learning pack is coming out soon, I assume it involves helping with the learning process.
Phil
Posts: 9

Post by Phil »

thanks membra for your figure. You are right, in this case, the transparent previsualisation is more confusing than helpful. That's why the transparency (or fade) has to be progressive between notes to be played soon and notes to be played later. The correct setting may be tricky to adjust correctly :roll:

But it is also true that very often the simplest solutions are the best ones ...
membra
Posts: 18

Post by membra »

Best thing I can think of with regards to the keys changing colour as warning is to only change the colour of the key/chord(if more than one at a time) which is up next. Then as soon as you play them the next key will light up/fade. Which might actually work well with the "hesitation mode" Nicholas is working on in which the music stops till you hit the correct keys. This way it will show which keys to hit to continue.

It won't give as much warning as it could fading in like you suggest, but it would still work with more complicated pieces. With complicated pieces, the keys could be everywhere on the vertical timeline, so a lot of the keys are going to be different shades busy fading, which could be a bit complicated. Essentially the fading will become a way of telling you when to hit, which is what the midi block is doing in a more obvious way than telling different shades of a colour apart.
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