Few things that I think would help

[jimicus]

I'm finding that my progress tends to tail off quite rapidly with most of the songs I'm trying to learn.

I have figured out a few things that help - and while I've been doing them manually, I don't see why they couldn't be integrated with Synthesia to aid the learning process:

• Split a song into parts, each no more than about 60 seconds long. It's much easier to work on lots of small bits than one big 4 minute track. Right now I've found a little command line utility called MIDICUT (http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia ... ICUT.shtml) that does a pretty good job - but it'd be much easier if this was integrated into Synthesia.
• Loop bits I'm having trouble with so I can go over them several times. Synthesia already knows that I'm making errors and it keeps track of how many errors I've made each time I play; I imagine it'd just be a matter of keeping track of where those errors are and looping in bars that regularly see lots of errors.

[Nicholas]

Split a song into parts, each no more than about 60 seconds long.

You can achieve a similar effect in Synthesia with bookmarks and the various shortcuts that let you navigate around bookmarks quickly. The only thing missing is separate scoring for each section.

Synthesia already knows that I'm making errors and it keeps track of how many errors I've made each time I play; I imagine it'd just be a matter of keeping track of where those errors are and looping in bars that regularly see lots of errors.

I really like this idea. A sort of guided-practice mode where you have to reach some level of proficiency before you're allowed to go forward, with loops being formed automatically. This is something I'd like to see added sometime during 2014.

[jimicus]

The only thing missing is separate scoring for each section.

I think that's a pretty big "only thing missing" - for reasons I'll come to.

I really like this idea. A sort of guided-practice mode where you have to reach some level of proficiency before you're allowed to go forward, with loops being formed automatically. This is something I'd like to see added sometime during 2014.

Yep - the benefit of something like splitting a track for scoring purposes is it could integrate with a feature like this so as to encourage the pupil.

Let me put it this way: Which is more encouraging?

• You're 20% through getting this!
• You're 90% through part 1 of four!

IMV, the second one looks more encouraging. Nobody can master a big complicated piece overnight (certainly nobody with my complete lack of talent!).

I've also found as a helpful side-effect - lots of songs repeat similar or identical bits. Whether it's a common thing that others have found or simply a side effect of my cloth ears I don't know, but I've found that getting parts 2-4 right is much easier once I've cracked part 1 - which is in itself much easier if it's quite short.

[jimicus]

I really like this idea. A sort of guided-practice mode where you have to reach some level of proficiency before you're allowed to go forward, with loops being formed automatically. This is something I'd like to see added sometime during 2014.

Once you've got a guided practise mode that keeps track of bits the player is doing well (and not so well) in, you've opened the door to an awful lot more sophistication that isn't possible right now. Off the top of my head:

• Adaptive speed - a sort-of "practice the rhythm" mode where it automatically slows down for difficult bits (read: bits the player keeps getting wrong!). Or even dynamically change between rhythm and melody practise modes...?
• More sophisticated progress tracking - highlighting the areas of difficulty and the areas that have seen improvement.
• Improved feedback - the existing "n Note Combo!" is a good start, but now it'd be possible to say things like "Difficult bit coming up!".... "Let's go over that again"... "Much better!"
• Non-linear training. Why force the player to go over the whole song from beginning to end looping over the first three bars, then the second set of three bars, then the third set.....? Focus on the most difficult bars (= the ones that the player consistently scores the poorest on) first for rapid improvements.

Of course, at this point, one has to question if Synthesia is a game, a tutor or both....

[jimhenry]

• More sophisticated progress tracking - highlighting the areas of difficulty and the areas that have seen improvement.

...
Of course, at this point, one has to question if Synthesia is a game, a tutor or both....

I like this idea. What I'm visualizing is a compressed piano roll view or a sheet music view where the background is green, yellow, or red to show how well you handle that section. White if you haven't worked on a section.

I never have thought of Synthesia as a game. Maybe as one gets older the definition of game changes though. Since I am only learning to play piano for fun, maybe playing piano is a game for me. In any event, I am not trying to amass points or get on the top of a leaderboard. I just want to sound good.

[Nicholas]

Once you've got a guided practise mode ... you've opened the door to an awful lot more sophistication that isn't possible right now.

I actually really like all those ideas.

I've started thinking about generating automatic finger hints lately and some helpful bits of technology would fall out of that process along the way. Solving long chains of notes for optimal hints would be computationally expensive, so you'd want to try and break things down into small chunks of notes whenever there was a big enough pause to comfortably reposition your hand/fingers without regard for the previous/next sections. That way the hint solver can work on smaller sections. Not only does that make it a simpler problem, now Synthesia is thinking about things in terms of sections. If it identifies a repeated section, it doesn't have to calculate anything; it just uses the previous solution. So, not only do you get consistent finger hints from repeated-section to repeated-section, but a good portion of the work toward a guided non-linear trainer like the one you described would already be finished. That is, you wouldn't be forced to go over repeat sections a bunch of times before Synthesia "knew" you were good at those parts of the song.

I worry that these cool "AI"-type features would be competing for development time with the upcoming MusicXML work, but frankly these sound a lot more interesting to me. I could much more easily see 2014 being the year Synthesia gained a bunch of cool trainer features you can't find anywhere else, than it being the year it gained sheet music notation so now it looks like every other piece of music software out there.

[jimhenry]

I hope you'll stay the course on MusicXML. I think the cool AI will be much cooler when it can leverage MusicXML.

[Raymond]

..the year Synthesia gained a bunch of cool trainer features...

What good is a trainer if you always need the trainer?

I thought MusicXML was going to be the 'easy' way to get better sheet music?

[Nicholas]

What good is sheet music if you always need sheet music?

Done properly, a bunch of smart training features would lead directly to memorization. The representation used during training (sheet or falling notes) seems irrelevant outside of one being more accessible to newcomers than the other.

In any event, one doesn't preclude the other. There is a good chance I'll be bouncing between both feature sets during 2014. Jim's suggestion that Synthesia at least supports loading MusicXML (as MIDI data) seems like a good place to start. This other stuff is more experimental, so I could see trying one new thing each release as MusicXML is improving each time around.

[jimhenry]

I believe Raymond's point is that if you can play from sheet music, you can take sheet music anywhere and play. If you need the piano roll as a prompt, it isn't as portable. Performing from sheet music is accepted. Playing from a piano roll, not so much (unless you are a player piano).

[stephenhazel]

I certainly don't plan to memorize eeeeevery song I learn.
But I think you can print pianoroll notation in multiple columns just like you have
multiple rows of standard notation.
Notation on paper has one or two advantages over a tablet. Especially on an acoustic.

[Nicholas]

A tablet beats paper any day as far as I'm concerned. Even if you're just using a sheet music page-turning app. An iPad Air is more compact than any folder with loose sheets or book whose binding doesn't always like to stay open. That, and you can carry your entire library of music with you. If paper can do it, an app can be designed to do it better.

I'm not sure where Jim is hanging out that tablets aren't "acceptable" but it's a trend that will change fast. Five years ago students weren't allowed to have cell phones in schools. Now you're a bad parent if they don't have one. We're right in the middle of a paradigm shift.

Arguments of portability, acceptability, and convenience have zero resonance for me. I can safely proclaim that for the rest of my entire life, any time I would consider sitting down at a piano -- acoustic or not -- my tablet will be more ready than any papers. And if someone tells me I can't use it, I'll go someplace else where I can.

All of that said, tablets vs. paper is a different discussion than notation vs. piano roll... and both are moot and off-topic for the purposes of adding cool training features. All of this stuff is coming. And while there are some real trade-offs for when they'll happen, there isn't any question of whether or not they will happen. 2013 had a lot of big IT/business/maintenance tasks get in the way: months of bug-fix-only releases, a major website infrastructure switch-over, the music store (and its associated "bring Nicholas out of 2002 and up to 2013 web technologies" phase) took lots of time away from development, two major "real life" things I never discussed shaved about four months right off the front of the year, and while Synthesia 9's multiple languages is a boon for an expanding user base, it's not especially exciting for existing users.

2014 is... completely wide open. There are only a couple small efforts (e.g., the video creator) lined up that won't directly improve the practice tool, but overall I'm really excited to have a full year to get some awesome features in. I've been saying "I'll have time for X after Y" for years now. The good news is I've run out of Y's, so there is finally time to get to some of those X's.

[jimhenry]

I'm not sure where Jim is hanging out that tablets aren't "acceptable" but it's a trend that will change fast. ...
...
All of that said, tablets vs. paper is a different discussion than notation vs. piano roll...

You got it. Sheet music does not equal paper. Sheet music equals traditional notation.

The discussion was along the lines of where are people trying to go, and what path are they taking to get there. A long time ago, I said the goal of Synthesia is to not need Synthesia. Presumably the goal of most people is to play without having Synthesia in front of them. Probably quite a few people would be happy to play with sheet music (on any media) in front of them.

Why is sheet music OK and a piano roll display not so much? I can't point to anything other than tradition. Nonetheless, I don't think you'll find anywhere near the acceptance for using a piano roll, especially a moving piano roll that is feeding you the rhythm, as you will for sheet music. The fact that you look like you are playing Guitar Hero doesn't help one bit. That is why one of the most requested features for piano roll software is to not be piano roll software. People want to learn what tradition says are impressive skills--playing piano and reading sheet music, not necessarily together. I not arguing for what should be. I am just saying what I think the situation is at the moment. You can fight it or you can profit from it.

[Raymond]

I believe Raymond's point is that if you can play from sheet music, you can take sheet music anywhere and play.

Also the fact that all piano pieces are on sheet music.

Maybe it's just that I don't know sheet music well enough, but I always feel that piano-roll is 'slow' or 'big'. (meaning I can't see far a head, yet still see the short notes.)
I have always thought that AI and better history/graphs would fit well in Synthesia, but Iv been waiting for sheet music.

[stephenhazel]

Yeah, I like the idea of "time compression" that standard notation uses.
Short notes stand out, and long notes don't take up the whole dang page.

I think that can be done in piano roll notation, too.
Not the same way, but you can scale each bar for the notes it has.
No notes? Very short bar. Tons of 16ths? Pretty long.
2 Half notes? Still pretty short, etc.

It'll make the play along cursor switch speeds on a new bar,
but that's what your mind does when you actually play it.

I really think there's nothing standard notation does that can't be done better
in piano roll notation. I mean, we no longer need guys who spend their whole
lives trying to get the notation juust right.
We can use grids and colors and shapes that weren't available when they
came up with standard notation hundreds of years ago.

[Raymond]

That's a good point. but even if you where able to get Everything standard notation can do, currently there is more music in standard notation than anything else. (not that it can't be converted, but it takes time&effort or money)

Sorry if it seems like I am whining. I just get a little annoyed when Syntheisa seems to be going in a different direction then I thought when I bought it. (witch was "A fun way to learn how to play the piano." Piano makes me assume standard notation.)


Not that I don't like 'new'/'different' things. (as long as the advantages outweigh the disadvantages)

Sorry for derailing these threads.

[jimicus]

Oh dear! I seem to have accidentally hijacked Nicholas' plans for the whole of 2014!

But I don't see any of the ideas I've suggested getting in the way of those who want to improve their sheet music playing.

Throw in a few training pieces (which Synthesia already comes with), disable the piano roll in favour of filling the screen with sheet music and you've got sight-reading practise. Pretty damn good sight-reading practise, as it happens, because it can keep track of the bits you're messing up. A few constructive comments like "Hold this note longer!" and you're laughing.