128 keys?

KaleidonKep99 · Post by **KaleidonKep99** » 08-03-14 12:56 pm

I really want to have the entire MIDI keyboard (128 keys) on Synthesia.
How I can do that?

Like this:
Click me

Post by **Nicholas** » 08-03-14 2:12 pm

MIDI's range of 128 note IDs doesn't mean there is a keyboard with 128 keys. It's to support other instruments that fall outside a piano's normal range.

While the upcoming video creator will support million+ note songs at a perfectly smooth 60 FPS with precisely-synced audio -- I'm even considering a method of adding a scrolling video/image backdrop, so something like this could show actual snowflakes instead of faked-notes -- I still don't like the idea of showing more than the 88 note range of a full-size piano. With the scrolling backdrop image, the need for more columns to "draw" snowflakes or whatever else isn't as important.

stephenhazel · Post by **stephenhazel** » 08-03-14 2:58 pm

The pipe organ and maybe the harp can go just barely out of the 88 note range of the piano.
But there aren't 128 audible notes unless you're a dog or something.

Post by **Nicholas** » 08-03-14 3:11 pm

That just made me curious. The Wikipedia page on Musical Range has a cool chart!

jimhenry · Post by **jimhenry** » 08-03-14 3:44 pm

There are a very few pipe organs that can play notes below MIDI Note 0 although MIDI Note 8 is the limit for most pipe organs and MIDI Note 20 is pretty much playable by any full sized organ. At the other end, pipe organs can theoretically go above MIDI Note 127 but the pipes get so small, they are usually not included. Up to MIDI Note 120 isn't too unusual.

However, the organ keyboards only go from MIDI Note 36 to 96, which is a smaller range than a piano. The playable range of notes is obtained by what amount to transposing controls.

KaleidonKep99 · Post by **KaleidonKep99** » 08-03-14 4:59 pm

Nicholas wrote:I still don't like the idea of showing more than the 88 note range of a full-size piano.

Why you don't simply put an option on Synthesia to enable this feature? :O

Post by **Nicholas** » 08-03-14 5:29 pm

Internally, it would take more work than that. The keyboard display isn't really ready to show more than 88. To do it right, it would also require at least a little UI change too, with some new options in the zoom popup.

... that, and there isn't a good reason to add it. What's your use case? If you had it, what would you do with it?

KaleidonKep99 · Post by **KaleidonKep99** » 08-03-14 6:18 pm

I make Black MIDI's videos.

That's my channel if you want more proof: "Don't click me if you're not Nicholas k?"

PFA (Piano From Above, the other MIDI player program) doesn't work anymore, as you can see (I'm uploading only Synthesia's videos in these days), so I was thinking "Maybe I can ask Nicholas if he can add this feature.".
It would be a perfect way to add functionality to Synthesia, and (no offense) to remove those ugly arrows...

Nicholas wrote:What's your use case? If you had it, what would you do with it?

I need 128 keys to show all the contents of a Black MIDI, like on Piano From Above.
That program doesn't work on my PC anymore, so I asked you to add that feature to Synthesia.
I'm not the only one to use Synthesia to play Black MIDIs, there's Gingeas too.

This can be a great feature for Synthesia. :O

Post by **Nicholas** » 08-08-14 5:50 pm

KaleidonKep99 wrote:I need 128 keys to show all the contents of a Black MIDI...

Alright, now we're getting somewhere. Let's keep going:

Why do Black MIDI files need 128 keys? What is their purpose for using notes outside the typical 88 note range?

KaleidonKep99 · Post by **KaleidonKep99** » 08-09-14 11:07 am

Nicholas wrote:
KaleidonKep99 wrote:I need 128 keys to show all the contents of a Black MIDI...
Alright, now we're getting somewhere. Let's keep going:

Why do Black MIDI files need 128 keys? What is their purpose for using notes outside the typical 88 note range?

Note art.

Some examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FgJWDyEf1U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO9aaYD0w7c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt8GHSVLG58

We need 128 keys to show the MIDI note art. Synthesia doesn't allow this now.

Post by **Nicholas** » 08-09-14 11:16 am

Yes, and you'll have tremendously more resolution for art using the feature I mentioned in my first response. Instead of 88 or 128 columns to work with, you'll have 1920.

KaleidonKep99 · Post by **KaleidonKep99** » 08-09-14 5:06 pm

Nicholas wrote:Yes, and you'll have tremendously more resolution for art using the feature I mentioned in my first response. Instead of 88 or 128 columns to work with, you'll have 1920.

We don't need 4398573495739405823490320 columns, only 128, 1 for each key D:

Post by **Nicholas** » 08-09-14 6:59 pm

If it's a matter of degree, why don't you use pitch bend and MIDI RPN events to go microtonal? Why stop at 128? You could easily generate notes a couple octaves below note 0 or above 127. Even staying inside the 128 range, there are still 100 cents between every semitone, so you've got 12,800 pitches you could produce. If you're trying to use "all" the notes, then not using RPN + pitch bend is just lazy.

Are you telling me that you guys only use the plain, boring 128 MIDI pitches? For a group that prides themselves on making extreme songs, it sounds like you've got a lot further to go.

Gingeas · Post by **Gingeas** » 08-09-14 10:44 pm

Oooooooh snap The Pigeon just dropped the bombs on da Black MIDI Krewz

KaleidonKep99 · Post by **KaleidonKep99** » 08-09-14 10:51 pm

Nicholas wrote:If it's a matter of degree, why don't you use pitch bend and MIDI RPN events to go microtonal? Why stop at 128? You could easily generate notes a couple octaves below note 0 or above 127. Even staying inside the 128 range, there are still 100 cents between every semitone, so you've got 12,800 pitches you could produce. If you're trying to use "all" the notes, then not using RPN + pitch bend is just lazy.

Are you telling me that you guys only use the plain, boring 128 MIDI pitches? For a group that prides themselves on making extreme songs, it sounds like you've got a lot further to go.

Nice troll. Lol.

Gingeas · Post by **Gingeas** » 08-09-14 10:59 pm

But pitches do exist. D:

techguy101 · Post by **techguy101** » 08-21-14 1:33 pm

I wish we had a 128 keys because piano from above has 128 keys

Post by **Nicholas** » 08-21-14 8:53 pm

And if a different app had 256 keys, would you want both Synthesia and PFA updated so they had 256 too? When does that arms race stop?

(My answer is that it stops at 88.

)

techguy101 · Post by **techguy101** » 12-03-14 8:48 pm

Gingeas wrote: Oooooooh snap The Pigeon just dropped the bombs on da Black MIDI Krewz

he did it again lol xD.

sirknight · Post by **sirknight** » 12-21-14 3:07 pm

What's the point?

This is a tool to learn how to play music.

Not play music to be a tool.