color- and order parameters in the instrumentlist

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martin
Posts: 45

Post by martin » 05-25-11 5:49 pm

Hi!
Need some help!
I have noticed that the colors in the instrument list follow the pattern: 1 RED - 2 PURPLE - 3 YELLOW - 4 ORANGE - 5GREEN - 6 BLUE
What I can´t figure out is how to change or at least predict the order in which the instruments will be placed in the instrument list, when I am creating a midi file. '

What parameters decide which order the instruments are displayed in the list?

Thanks in advance!
Martin

Nicholas
Posts: 12057

Post by Nicholas » 05-25-11 6:07 pm

Tracks are ordered by the average pitch of all the notes in that track. So, the right hand part of most songs will be listed first. (Higher pitch = higher in the list.)

Beyond that, percussion is always ordered last.

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DC64
Posts: 830
Location: Earth, U.S.

Post by DC64 » 05-25-11 9:23 pm

What about colors?
"And now for something completely different."

Nicholas
Posts: 12057

Post by Nicholas » 05-26-11 12:47 am

They're uh... not as easy to determine. ;)

Colors are assigned before any of that sorting takes place (and even before things like empty tracks are removed from the list)! They usually just cycle through the colors from Blue, on... but after the sorting/removing stuff, it looks pretty random sometimes.

martin
Posts: 45

Post by martin » 05-26-11 1:32 am

Ok!
Thanks for quick response!
I hoped that I might be able to control these thing by assigning instruments to different midi channels.
What excactly do you mean by removing / sorting stuff
Martin

Nicholas
Posts: 12057

Post by Nicholas » 05-26-11 8:13 am

  • By removing I meant that empty tracks aren't displayed on the track settings screen.
  • By sorting, I meant that the tracks are reorganized by average pitch.
  • And I forgot one: adding! If you have tracks with events using more than one channel, Synthesia will split them apart so that each track refers to at most one channel.
So, in order to predict the colors, in your MIDI editor, just make sure each track only uses one channel and make sure not to leave any empty ones. Then, track 1 in your editor should always end up blue in Synthesia (by default). The 2nd will be green, and so on.

And of course, all of this relies on saving the files as Format-1 MIDI. If you save in Format-0, all the tracks are wiped out and everything is squished down into a single one.

martin
Posts: 45

Post by martin » 05-26-11 4:26 pm

Thanks!
Great answer!!

Lemo
Posts: 313

Post by Lemo » 05-26-11 11:33 pm

While we're at it, what about instruments icons?
I'm especially wondering about this one, which seems to pick Orchestral Harp and other random stuff:
Image
Also guitarImage
and BassImage
tracks seem to be mixed somehow?

I'm trying to include those in Gramp, and if you have the complete listing for each icon it's perfect :]
Stuff & experiments for Synthesia: Gramp v0.2SkinboxFireSynthVideoWebradio

Nicholas
Posts: 12057

Post by Nicholas » 05-27-11 7:28 am

Lemo wrote:I'm trying to include those in Gramp...
Are you taking my icons?! :o Those were expensive... ;)

As for the mapping to MIDI instruments, it's totally arbitrary. I paid David for 20 icons, he threw an extra one in for free, and then I had to find a way to map 21 to 128. So there are gaps and poorer fits here and there.

Still, if you could, please try to find an open set of instrument icons. (They're certain to exist. Lots of MIDI apps out there.) I don't permit redistribution of the set in Synthesia.

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DC64
Posts: 830
Location: Earth, U.S.

Post by DC64 » 05-27-11 11:30 am

How much did those cost?
"And now for something completely different."

Nicholas
Posts: 12057

Post by Nicholas » 05-27-11 11:42 am

DC64 wrote:How much did those cost?
How impolite. :lol:

Lemo
Posts: 313

Post by Lemo » 05-27-11 2:45 pm

Nicholas wrote:Are you taking my icons?! :o Those were expensive... ;)
Well I sorta see that coming...

To be clearer, I consider Gramp as an "add-on" or "plug-in" for Synthesia, and for that reason I'd like Synthesia users to feel "at home".
If my program is only meant to be part, or played with Synthesia, I don't see any harm in re-using the game icons.
As you can see, for the moment I'm complying as much as I can with the game graphics, for a better user experience, and the instrument
icons will mostly be there to show a quick preview of the tracks of a midi, just as they will look like in the game, before that user actually
decides to launch it in Synthesia with the provided button.
Also, I have no plan to release it out of this forum or for another software than Synthesia, so I'm not taking anything, as everything will
stay around here, and will be used in complement of the game.

More generally, if think it's a better idea to encourage people to develop add-ons for Synthesia, as it will only bring positive things to the game.
Stuff & experiments for Synthesia: Gramp v0.2SkinboxFireSynthVideoWebradio

Nicholas
Posts: 12057

Post by Nicholas » 05-27-11 3:28 pm

Lemo wrote:... I don't see any harm in re-using the game icons.
It's less about harming Synthesia and more about getting yourself (and me) into compliance situations you weren't aware of. For example, did you know that using the 3 little icons you have on the buttons in each of the screenshots (and the config "wrench") in this post requires a $60 royalty-free license or attribution in your product documentation? By copy-pasting them directly out of Synthesia instead of finding your own solution, you didn't know that you were stealing Yusuke Kamiyamane's work.

By allowing any sort of redistribution of assets from Synthesia, it would be my responsibility to educate people about all the licenses and other agreements I've made and have to adhere to... that they too would have to adhere to. I'm not ready to make that commitment. So, for now: no redistribution of any kind.

Outside of unwittingly roping you into licensing agreements you didn't want to be a part of, I absolutely encourage add-ons for Synthesia. All the AutoHotkey stuff TonE has come up with, the things aria has been doing, the fingering prediction stuff Frost wrote, and all of the stuff you've done so far is great. Keep it up.

Look at it this way: if you're going to go to all the work of writing the code and debugging it, what's a little bit of extra effort to find/create graphics for it? Presumably you made the Gramp logo, so you're definitely capable of making nice-looking things.

If I had written every line of code and drawn every single pixel from scratch, I'd be able to offer what you're looking for. I didn't, so I can't.

Lemo
Posts: 313

Post by Lemo » 05-27-11 6:15 pm

Nicholas wrote:By copy-pasting them directly out of Synthesia instead of finding your own solution, you didn't know that you were stealing Yusuke Kamiyamane's work.
If you look closer to the screenshot, you may see that the third tab is for credits, and I'm totally mentioning the author there.
(Okay maybe there is not direct link to his website or crazy amount of ©©©copyright©©© symbols yet)
Of course I read your documentation before adding them, and the readme file is very clear about the interface icons license (but the one for the instruments isn't that much).

I don't see why David would bother of Synthesia add-ons, but I don't know about your "other agreements" with him on the other hand.
Anyway, if it's your choice I won't include those instrument icons.
Stuff & experiments for Synthesia: Gramp v0.2SkinboxFireSynthVideoWebradio

Nicholas
Posts: 12057

Post by Nicholas » 05-27-11 6:34 pm

I definitely missed the small print there. Sorry about that. ;)

Otherwise, yeah, please hold off on the instrument stuff. It feels weird to bring it all the way back around, but something Activision said in their original cease and desist to me (for the name "Piano Hero") applies here pretty nicely:
Activision wrote:And while we understand that you are a sole developer without intent to harm, were Activision not to act on instances like yours, others who do have an intent to harm could try to use Activision's inaction to attack [us]...
Your use actually looks pretty clear and friendly... but a blanket-statement makes it easier to enforce. My entire livelihood is based on the fact that no one has sued me yet, so I apologize if I am acting a little paranoid. :D

Lemo
Posts: 313

Post by Lemo » 05-27-11 9:33 pm

Okay, but just keep in mind not to become like them :lol:
Stuff & experiments for Synthesia: Gramp v0.2SkinboxFireSynthVideoWebradio

Nicholas
Posts: 12057

Post by Nicholas » 05-28-11 8:55 am

I know, it kind of hurt realizing I wanted to say the same thing they said to me. I had to sit there for a couple minutes and re-evaluate my life. :D

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